TCM 1 392-3-3 LISI Aerospace [Bestas] Gazemir (TR) EN4128-060

On ASD-CERT website, EN/AS9100 certificate validity is expired (11/06/2019).

On FPI report for EN4128-060, batch size is 175 bolts.
32 bolts were FPI inspected.
However, as per ISO9154, tables 3 and 4, AQL = 0,065% for discontinuities detection.
Thus, in ISO9154 table 4, column AQL 0,065%, we have a down arrow marked against production batch size “151 to 280”. This down arrow means: “Use sampling plan below (sample size and Ac)”.
In the case of sample size is equal to or greater than the batch size, a 100% inspection shall be performed.
In this case, down arrow leads to sample 200 parts (with Ac = 0). So, since sample size (200) exceeds mfg batch size (175), a 100% FPI inspection should have been done instead of 32.

• First, these qualifications were performed before ISO2859-1 sampling issue for Acceptance on NDT tests and dimensional checks was raised.
• Then, sample size realized for qualification is in line with technical specifications.

So, based on these two bullets, qualifications mentioned below, unless 392-3-2 (ongoing comments), shall be approved on my side provided a formal statement from LISI AEROSPACE IZMIR about this topic is given to ASD-CERT.

CoC EN4128-060, tensile test at ambient temperature:
Minimum tensile load requirement written in CoC is 2191 daN.
However, minimum tensile requirement is 3370 daN x 0,806 = 2720 daN. Please see EN4128, clause 6.4 associated with ISO9154, table 5.
In EN4128, Annex A gives some additional details about this allowance coefficient:

“Replace 6.4
“Minimum tensile strength test loads: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
By
“Minimum tensile strength test load and double shear test loads and tension fatigue test: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
The coefficient 0,806 is the ratio of UTS 1250/1550 and should be used for double shear and tension fatigue test too.”
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.
If we do the math with formulae mentioned in ISO9154 and considering 1250 MPa strength class:
At = (pi/4)(d3)²[2-(d3/d2)²]= (pi/4)(4,845²)[2-(4,845/5,350)²]=21,753 mm².
Minimum tensile load = (AtkRm)/1000 = (21,753x1x1250)/1000 = 27,2 kN.
If we consider ISO9154 tensile strength and 0,806 coefficient (EN4128, clause 6.4), we have the same result:
Minimum tensile load = [(AtkRm)/1000]x0,806 = [(21,753x1x1550)/1000]x0,806 = 27,2 kN.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Tensile test values are compliant and this is the most important.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum tensile value at elevated temperature requirement written is 1752 daN.
Minimum hot tensile requirement is 27 kN x 0,806 = 21,76 kN. Please see EN4128 clause 6.4 associated with ISO9154, table 5 and clause B.2.3. Could you please fix this? Actual values are compliant.
Indeed:
As per EN4128, clause 6.4, minimum tensile load at ambient temperature = 33700×0,806 = 27,2 kN.
As per ISO9154, table 5 and clause B.2.3, tensile load at ambient temperature = 0,8 times tensile test load at ambient temperature.
Thus, 33700×0,806×0,8 = 21,7 kN.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Tensile test values are compliant and this is the most important.
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum double shear load requirement written is 34,17 kN.
Shear strength cross-sectional area = As = (pi/4)(d)² = (pi/4)x6² = 28,274 mm².
Shear load = (2AsRc)/1000 = (2×28,274x1550x0,806×0,6)/1000 = 42,41 kN.
With Rc = 1550×0,806×0,6 or Rc = 1250×0,6.
Please see additional explanations in EN4128, Annex A and EN4128, clause 6.4.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Double shear test values are compliant and this is the most important.
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum stress rupture load requirement written is 1095 daN.
As per EN4128, clause 6.4, “Minimum tensile strength test load and double shear test loads and tension fatigue test: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
As per ISO9154, clause B.2.5, stress rupture test load at elevated temperature = 0,5 times tensile test load at ambient temperature.
Thus, the minimum stress rupture test load = 33700×0,806×0,5 = 13581 N.
Could you please correct this? Since load applied is not the right one, this test shall be performed again with right load.

EN4128-060 CoC, tension fatigue test: could you please precise which fatigue loads were applied? Indeed, these loads are directly linked to tensile loads as per EN4128, clause 6.4.

Aluminum IVD CoC: on ASD-CERT website, in section “manufacturing process”, it is written that Aluminum IVD was applied by LISI AEROSPACE Villefranche de Rouergue, France.
In section “NADCAP or OEM accreditations”, we have NADCAP CP certificate for LISI AEROSAPCE Villefranche de Rouergue.
However, this Aluminum IVD CoC was established by LISI AEROSPACE Saint Ouen l’Aumône, France.
Could you please clarify?

Many thanks in advance and have a good day.
Best regards,
Julien

7 Replies to “TCM 1 392-3-3 LISI Aerospace [Bestas] Gazemir (TR) EN4128-060”

Julien Gauther says:

11/02/2020 at 6:44 pm

On ASD-CERT website, EN/AS9100 certificate validity is expired (11/06/2019).

On FPI report for EN4128-060, batch size is 175 bolts.
32 bolts were FPI inspected.
However, as per ISO9154, tables 3 and 4, AQL = 0,065% for discontinuities detection.
Thus, in ISO9154 table 4, column AQL 0,065%, we have a down arrow marked against production batch size “151 to 280”. This down arrow means: “Use sampling plan below (sample size and Ac)”.
In the case of sample size is equal to or greater than the batch size, a 100% inspection shall be performed.
In this case, down arrow leads to sample 200 parts (with Ac = 0). So, since sample size (200) exceeds mfg batch size (175), a 100% FPI inspection should have been done instead of 32.

• First, these qualifications were performed before ISO2859-1 sampling issue for Acceptance on NDT tests and dimensional checks was raised.
• Then, sample size realized for qualification is in line with technical specifications.

So, based on these two bullets, qualifications mentioned below, unless 392-3-2 (ongoing comments), shall be approved on my side provided a formal statement from LISI AEROSPACE IZMIR about this topic is given to ASD-CERT.

CoC EN4128-060, tensile test at ambient temperature:
Minimum tensile load requirement written in CoC is 2191 daN.
However, minimum tensile requirement is 3370 daN x 0,806 = 2720 daN. Please see EN4128, clause 6.4 associated with ISO9154, table 5.
In EN4128, Annex A gives some additional details about this allowance coefficient:

“Replace 6.4
“Minimum tensile strength test loads: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
By
“Minimum tensile strength test load and double shear test loads and tension fatigue test: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
The coefficient 0,806 is the ratio of UTS 1250/1550 and should be used for double shear and tension fatigue test too.”
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.
If we do the math with formulae mentioned in ISO9154 and considering 1250 MPa strength class:
At = (pi/4)(d3)²[2-(d3/d2)²]= (pi/4)(4,845²)[2-(4,845/5,350)²]=21,753 mm².
Minimum tensile load = (AtkRm)/1000 = (21,753x1x1250)/1000 = 27,2 kN.
If we consider ISO9154 tensile strength and 0,806 coefficient (EN4128, clause 6.4), we have the same result:
Minimum tensile load = [(AtkRm)/1000]x0,806 = [(21,753x1x1550)/1000]x0,806 = 27,2 kN.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Tensile test values are compliant and this is the most important.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum tensile value at elevated temperature requirement written is 1752 daN.
Minimum hot tensile requirement is 27 kN x 0,806 = 21,76 kN. Please see EN4128 clause 6.4 associated with ISO9154, table 5 and clause B.2.3. Could you please fix this? Actual values are compliant.
Indeed:
As per EN4128, clause 6.4, minimum tensile load at ambient temperature = 33700×0,806 = 27,2 kN.
As per ISO9154, table 5 and clause B.2.3, tensile load at ambient temperature = 0,8 times tensile test load at ambient temperature.
Thus, 33700×0,806×0,8 = 21,7 kN.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Tensile test values are compliant and this is the most important.
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum double shear load requirement written is 34,17 kN.
Shear strength cross-sectional area = As = (pi/4)(d)² = (pi/4)x6² = 28,274 mm².
Shear load = (2AsRc)/1000 = (2×28,274x1550x0,806×0,6)/1000 = 42,41 kN.
With Rc = 1550×0,806×0,6 or Rc = 1250×0,6.
Please see additional explanations in EN4128, Annex A and EN4128, clause 6.4.
Could you please correct this on CoC? Double shear test values are compliant and this is the most important.
This explanation is also in connection with qualification 392-3-2.

EN4128-060 CoC, minimum stress rupture load requirement written is 1095 daN.
As per EN4128, clause 6.4, “Minimum tensile strength test load and double shear test loads and tension fatigue test: apply the coefficient 0,806.”
As per ISO9154, clause B.2.5, stress rupture test load at elevated temperature = 0,5 times tensile test load at ambient temperature.
Thus, the minimum stress rupture test load = 33700×0,806×0,5 = 13581 N.
Could you please correct this? Since load applied is not the right one, this test shall be performed again with right load.

EN4128-060 CoC, tension fatigue test: could you please precise which fatigue loads were applied? Indeed, these loads are directly linked to tensile loads as per EN4128, clause 6.4.

Aluminum IVD CoC: on ASD-CERT website, in section “manufacturing process”, it is written that Aluminum IVD was applied by LISI AEROSPACE Villefranche de Rouergue, France.
In section “NADCAP or OEM accreditations”, we have NADCAP CP certificate for LISI AEROSAPCE Villefranche de Rouergue.
However, this Aluminum IVD CoC was established by LISI AEROSPACE Saint Ouen l’Aumône, France.
Could you please clarify?

Many thanks in advance and have a good day.
Best regards,
Julien

Philip Edwards says:

11/02/2021 at 8:34 am

Lisi QTR Updated and uploaded to QTR section of the report (QTR001-21 Feb 2021)

Julien Gauther says:

12/02/2021 at 8:22 am

Many thanks for this update Phil.
Just something remaining: PFC states that IVD is subcontracted.
We have a CoC from LISI Saint Ouen l’Aumöne for aluminum IVD + Alodine 1200 plating for EN4128-060 on the one hand.
On the other, we have a CoC from Aerocoating for IVD + Alodine 1200 for EN4128-120.
So, which one has to be considered for qualification?
We have 2 PFCs as well: one for manual forging, the other for auto forging.
Which one shall be considered?
Many thanks for your help.
Best regards.
Julien

1. Nuray CETINYUREK says:
  
  26/07/2021 at 3:20 pm
  
  Hello Julien,
  
  Sorry for the delay. Flowchart has been updated to be manual only and the companies are added as an alternate.
  
  Nuray.
  
Julien Gauther says:

23/08/2021 at 9:02 am

Hello Nuray,

Many thanks for these updates.
Thus, we have three surface treatment companies and one of the three can be used.
Could you please confirm that only companies that have actually plated parts are qualified?
I mean, for a given bolt diameter, for instance diameter 6, only LISI Saint Ouen l’Aumône is qualified. Thus, in the future, for any reason, if there is a change of surface treatment subcontractor, a MCR will be carried out.
Is it correct?
Thank you again,
Have a nice day,
Julien

1. Nuray CETINYUREK says:
  
  09/09/2021 at 9:33 am
  
  Hello Julien,
  
  The flowcharts has been updated according to diameter & IVD subcontractor.
  
  Nuray.
  
Julien Gauther says:

09/09/2021 at 10:12 am

Hello Nuray,
Many thanks for these updates.
Approved on my side.
Best regards,
Julien

7 Replies to “TCM 1 392-3-3 LISI Aerospace [Bestas] Gazemir (TR) EN4128-060”

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