TCM 1 1278-(R) – Howmet Fixations Simmonds – St Cosme en Vairais (FR) PQ249

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Conditions for approval required by:  Julien Gauther

5 Replies to “TCM 1 1278-(R) – Howmet Fixations Simmonds – St Cosme en Vairais (FR) PQ249”

  1. Hardness test sample size: in addition to Auditor’s comment on ASD-CERT website, it is important to mention that there is an inconsistency between NF EN 3004 and DIN EN 3004.
    Indeed, DIN EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 requires and sampling plan as per table 6, column A (non-destructive test) for Acceptance. On the contrary, NF EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 requires a sampling plan as per table 6, column B (destructive test) for Acceptance.
    Mfg batch size is 12820 parts.
    DIN EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 needs a sampling plan as per table 6, column A for Acceptance ? 20 parts to be hardness tested.
    NF EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 needs a sampling plan as per table 6, column B for Acceptance ? 5 parts to be hardness tested.
    Thus, since we have 10 hardness values, it seems that NF EN 3004 has been applied.
    The difference in sampling rules between DIN EN 3004 and NF EN 3004 should be fixed.
    By considering NF EN 3004, actual sample size is compliant.
    What are Auditor’s and HFS’ points of view?

    Many thanks in advance,
    Best regards,
    Julien

    1. Good morning Julian.
      First of all, the inconsistency between NF EN 3004 and DIN EN 3004. Unfortunately I do not have the DIN EN 3004 and HFS does not have it upon inquiry. I contacted HFS about this issue and the answer was:

      “HFS hasn’t the DIN EN3004 so I cannot check this standard but I have checked the French version and the British version and the sampling defined in the both languages are the same – sampling per table 6 column B so 5 parts .
      I remember the rules of the standardization the standards are first built in English and then translate in the other language . So I think there is a mistake on the German translation.
      Moreover we are French company so we use the French standard or sometimes English when the French standard doesn’t exist.
      The issue must be submitted to ASD/STAN committee”.

      Totally agree with HFS’ response!
      Will contact the ASD-Cert Secretary General (Christelle) shortly to discuss how to proceed with this inconsistency here. Will inform you about this!

      As for the incorrect sample size of 10 pieces instead of 5, this does not affect the stated requirement (better more than less!). Will discuss this issue at the beginning of September when I visit HFS for audits, because it costs too much testing time and products, so money that is not necessary.

      Regards
      Kees

  2. Just to make it clearer (specific characters not recognized in previous comment):
    Mfg batch size is 12820 parts.
    – DIN EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 needs a sampling plan as per table 6, column A for Acceptance => 20 parts to be hardness tested.
    – NF EN 3004, clause 5.4.9 needs a sampling plan as per table 6, column B for Acceptance => 5 parts to be hardness tested.
    Best regards,
    Julien

  3. Hi Julien.

    Thanks for the clarification.
    See my response above.

    Have a nice day
    Regards
    Kees

  4. Dear all,
    I agree with all these answers/comments.
    Approved from my side.
    Best regards.
    Julien

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